Five days ago I posted an item called The curious case of council productivity about a claim that

The UK’s councils could do the same amount of work with 500,000 fewer staff if they matched the productivity of private firms.

It has sparked a lot of comment on a subscription-only forum I also posted it to – the excellent Local Government Improvement and Development Communities of Practice for Public Service web site.

In the interests of broadening understanding and debate I re-post those comments below for a wider audience.  This makes for a longer than usual post.  My apologies to anyone used to much shorter sound bites.

They are mainly from English local authorities with a scattering from people in national agencies, academia and the private sector.  I have edited them to

  • retain anonymity as the contributors concerned had not made their comments in public
  • remove acronyms
  • improve the flow between contributions and
  • correct any typos (we all pepretrate them).

In every case the original sense remains the same.

My thanks to all who have commented so far.  If more comments emerge I’ll add them to the end of this list.


Comments are listed in the order they were posted, the first in normal typeface, the second in italics and so on.

I saw this and commented on the Local Government Chronicle’s web site, where I pointed out that lean/systems thinking practitioners would easily work out ways of more than bridging that gap.  I’d estimate that BBC production time would show most people little more than 10% productive… so what would they do?

Then in Parliament, there often is only one person talking and 100 listening, so how will we work on that efficiency rating?

Going over to some of my favourite places in the world, high street shops, (no I’m not a shopping addict), most people are active for a small percentage of the day, and car salesmen earn from a sale every so many days?  Then estate agents…

If we are to discuss active time per day, my guess is that the public sector is actually doing work more hours per week than those we are compared with.. but that’s all statistics and …

Productivity observed – I take Roger’s original point and the contributor above makes his comparisons well.

However, I have one observation.

I do not work in a Council, although I have in the past.

What is seen is important.

We went to France on holiday last year. There were very few roadworks.

Of those that were observed, people were working flat out. One guy was even running between cars to mark the spot where the white line should be in the middle of the road.

There were no cones. In the heat of the day, it was quite a sight.

We came back through Ireland – Southern Ireland was much the same as France.

Then we hit the border.  The minute we entered the UK again, we knew about it.

There were road works everywhere.

But having become used to the French pace, we started to count how many men were actually working at the scene.

It was astonishingly low.  Men were walking, talking, hiding, having cups of tea, sleeping: but we could only find about one in ten actually working.

Ever since last year, we have been doing a similar exercise.  We have passed mile after mile of “coned off” section of road to find not one man working.

Now I don’t know if this is Council work or contracted out – but it creates a very bad impression.

Because at the end of the day, Government is paying.

Re the point about road works.

First, if you were on a main (trunk) road the government rather than a council would not be responsible.  So if your observation is correct and if both Highways Agency (England – other agencies in devolved parts of the UK) and council road works display similar characteristics it looks as if there’s something technical (“we do it differently but just as efficiently here”) or cultural going on.  Perhaps there’s a highways engineer out there in cyberspace who could comment?

Second, an entirely different point, the original blog was really trying to see if there was any validity in the Knox D’Arcy claims. It was not at all clear how they reached their conclusions from the evidence they published.  There is now a footnote on the blog that says “This post refers to the apparent unavailability of the report on which the conclusions reported above are based.  Overnight a note has appeared on the Knox D’Arcy web site saying “The research into public sector productivity will be available as a down load from this site when the report is released at the end of August.  I will return to the subject once it is available.”

What strikes me about this is how wooly all of the analysis is as presented in the news.  How are we to measure productivity?  How does this Report measure it?  We could look at professional sports and note how “inefficient” or “Unproductive” cricket teams are each match.  I am very dubious of any of these reports because the methodology is usually weak and the sample size is usually small.  What needs to be remembered is that private sector and public sector have different ethos and different relationships with their respective “customers”.  The public sector cannot choose its customers.  Who, for example, in the private sector, is going to pick up the work of handling civil burials?  At the same time, the focus of the work is different.  Service provision in the public sector is different from the public.  One only need to compare the financial regulations covering local government finance and the private sector.  The rules governing each create the opportunities and constraints that differentiate them.  As to the highway workers, different industries have different requirements.  Being active or busy is not always a sign of efficiency or effectiveness.  To be sure, it can be annoying from a certain perspective, but that does not mean it is inefficient or ineffective.  A final consideration is the need for “slack” so as to accommodate new projects or new emergencies.  To put it directly, no one can run a marathon at the pace used to run the 100 metres.  One could look at the marathon runner as being inefficient for not running faster but that misses the difference between the two runners.  The public sector has different requirements and different legislation each year and it cannot ignore any of it.  It has to be a full spectrum organisation while the private sector can specialise and focus.

I understand that you are awaiting the Knox D’Arcy report…

However, does the previous contributor not address the question himself at the end of his comment by informing us that the “public sector has different requirements and different legislation each year and it cannot ignore any of it…It has to be a full spectrum organisation while the private sector can specialise and focus.”

How effective and efficient is such practice?  How many people does it take to address the new rules in their entirety yearly?  Would any private sector industry put up with it?

Do these rules foster independence, leadership, creative thinking, innovation or autonomy by the Council?  Do they promote intelligent and credible workforces?

To return to roads very briefly – we had a pothole outside our house.

The Council sent workmen to repair it last month.  My husband was so astonished at their efforts, that he took photographic evidence.

Guess what?  Less than six weeks later, the pot hole is back in its full glory.  So, if the Council repaired it, why didn’t it last?  Who checks?

Efficient and effective practice must run alongside productivity.

I have just finished my dissertation on the subject of whether we are spending money wisely as applied to the NHS and social services.

Perhaps that would be a research topic for someone to undertake for councils?

After all, should we not remember that culture is to systems what behaviour is to values?

If your values are non-existent, your behaviour will follow suit: if the systems don’t work, the whole culture will fall into disrepair.

This massive collapse of culture is what I believe we are witnessing at present.

Who has the ability and courage to tear the system apart?

I heard these guys talk – they were inspirational. They didn’t spend Health Service money on more managers or business consultants. They simply ripped the whole thing apart and started again.

The original release of this research seems to come from the Conservative Party webiste [actually Conservative Home a related but independent site] or at least many of the media outlets were linking it from there.  Although I expect they would be the first to welcome this report, this seems to suggest prior knowledge at least.

I applaud Roger’s concerns about the state of statistical reporting as this is generally awful in our media, bordering on fraudulent in some cases.

However, whatever the motives, or dubious justifications, I think the essence of the report is fairly accurate.  Despite the defensive comments, I think we all know that local government could be better value for money. 400-odd separate organisations all paying for their own corporate/support services?  Surely there’s a way in which to streamline this without detracting from the public service culture, and local political control?

It is right that we should defend the great works that local government officers do, but we should also demonstrate what we’re doing to address the issues.

“readers may not always have the necessary skills to look critically at the report” – here is an article discussing another measure of productivity.

“I applaud Roger’s concerns about the state of statistical reporting as this is generally awful in our media, bordering on fraudulent in some cases”

Well said – it is often difficult to pick out the facts from media reports incorporating statistics, as they provide so little background detail, and even if enough detail is provided, readers may not always have the necessary skills to look critically at the report so may accept it at face value (whatever the particular ‘spin’ on it is).

In this case, the calculation they used is that to achieve a rate of 44%, there would need to be 27% fewer staff because 32/44 = 0.73 (but also 44 = 32 x 1.375).

This is how one of the public sector unions responded…

UNISON hits back at ”misleading” local government productivity claims

UNISON, the UK’s leading public sector trade union, today hit back at aKnow D’ Arcy  report on productivity in local government, calling the study misleading, unrepresentative and unhelpful.

Far from low productivity, comprehensive, independent studies show that public sector productivity has been rising since 2006 and recent job losses have left workers under huge pressure.  Further cuts would not only turn back the clock, but would lead to vital local services shutting their doors.

Dave Prentis, UNISON General Secretary, said:

“This small survey flies in the face of evidence on public sector productivity, which, thanks to investment under Labour, has been rising since 2006.  The real danger is that huge cuts now will turn back the clock, causing productivity to plummet, and a return to the dark days of Tory underfunding that ran local council services into the ground.

“The situation in Local Government now is more work on less shoulders. Council workers have delivered over and above targets for efficiency savings every year they have been set.  UNISON’s latest independent staff survey shows 31% of council staff regularly putting in extra hours without pay or time off in lieu.  Two thirds said that their workload had gone up from the previous year.  This is even before the latest round of job cuts hit home.

“The public cannot be fooled into thinking that job cuts will not have a devastating impact on local services. 500,000 job cuts would decimate local services.  Care homes, day centres, libraries and children’s homes are already shutting their doors.  Charges for services like home care, meals on wheels, or nursery places are on the up.  Serious shortages in social work and social care already exist, any more cuts will leave vulnerable people without the support they need.

“It is a red herring to compare private and public sector productivity.  How can you measure the productivity of a care worker, and compare it with a car worker on a production line?  Public services are labour intensive, and do not have the same scope for replacing people with technology.

“Instead of constantly running local government workers down, we should be focussing on boosting morale, which would also have a knock on effect to productivity.”

UNISON represents more than 850,000 local government workers, who work in libraries, care homes, as home carers, in parks and gardens, leisure centres, as social workers, teaching assistants, housing officers, in environmental health, as dinner ladies, school caretakers, meals on wheels staff and in local authority nurseries.

Well said

I think a previous contributor is right that it is the Highways Agency who do major road works who are coning off miles of road with little activity.  I found too that in France road works rarely last for more than a few days and there is a flurry of activity whilst they are in place.

I certainly think there is a lot of room for improvement on how they operate.

There used to be a Cones Hotline telephone number that allowed members of the Public to report inactivity on road works.  Unfortunately, most complaints were fobbed off and only a few percent of cones were actually removed.  It became known as the “Con” hotline because of this.

Councils are funded via tax payers.  But private sectors firms are funded through their customers.  The funding process is fundamentally the same, the only difference, I suppose, is one of choice.  You can choose where to spend you £$£$, but can’t choose to not be taxed (except you can – leave the country).  So if the funds come from the same place (my/ours/your pocket) why is it that a public sector body is held to a higher moral/ethical/efficiency standard than a private equivalent? Take the banking crisis.  This exposed the corrupt and wastage across the entire financial system.  People were, quite rightly, angry with the banks.  The banks were bailed out.  Now the public sector has to cut back drastically to pay for the bail outs, and the anger has transferred to the pubic sector because it is ‘bloated’ and ‘inefficient’, but the large deficit wasn’t caused by excess in the public sector.  It was caused by excess in the private sector.

It’s frankly ridiculous to presume that the private sector is super efficient and council workers sit around idly.  This is a fantasy built on an aspiration to pay less tax.  When you think about it, our everyday experiences of dealing with private sector firms (insurance, utilities, retail, banks, supermarkets, parking etc etc) tell a different story.

I was arguing the case for Lean Systems Thinking in a LinkedIn group, when the relevance of this discussion took a new turn.

The main difference between the private sector and the public sector is the adverse affect the Government have on the public sector.  They continue to gerrymander even when they say they will interfere less. (i.e. publishing all transactions over £xx,xxx)

The public sector must comply with EU and UK laws, thus we must be ‘open and accountable’ for all that we do.  We must comply with so many overlapping and sometime contradictory aspects, that either we could freeze in the uncertainty or risk scrutiny.

We must deal with the press, pressure groups, MP’s etc. in a way that no private sector firm would consider.  The new consultation initiative could have unforeseen affects, in that any nimby [non-UK readers – Not In My Back Yard] based group of people could stop any new development basically for ever.

So, if the Government require the public sector to be as efficient and effective as the private sector, perhaps the Government need to interfere far less?

If you will forgive me for saying so, some of the contributions appear to be missing the point.  Let me quote from a different set of research data, with just a few headlines and the source for those who wish to check for themselves.

First the source – Flow – The psychology of optimal performance – Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi – Harper and Row – 1990.

The headlines:

  1. About 25% of ‘paid for time’ people at work are not working at all.
  2. About 40% of the time they are in top quartile flow (that is 30% of paid for time) – in other words, they are heavily engaged with their work
  3. About 16% of the time at work is in apathy
  4. About 18% of leisure time is in top and second quartile flow
  5. At leisure, about 52% of time is spent in apathy
  6. A majority wish to spend more time at leisure and less at work

There are two implications of this, that are germane to the current discussion.  The first is that for about 45% of the time at work people are either not contributing or contributing well below their optimal level. By any standard, that is or should be a major concern.

The second implication is speculation.  Being in flow is highly satisfying to people – they and their skills are being challenged, and the results they achieve are a reward in themselves.  Perhaps the reason why people wish to have more time in apathy and less in flow – check the figures – is that the ‘flow satisfaction’ comes from the work itself and the desire for flight arises through the nature of the organisation in which the work is done. “I really enjoy the work I do, but when I pop up my head, I really dislike the organisational environment in which I do it.”

If the speculation is right, then it is a heavy responsibility on all management teams to ensure that the work environment is both supportive of all employees, and that it maximises their opportunities to operate in flow – for their own sake and for the benefit of suppliers and customers alike.

By the way, the Flow data did not differentiate in any way at all between public and private sectors.  The challenge appears to be more about how large organisations are managed, and, as it happens, there are many, many large organisations in the private sector.  Added to all the other constraints that apply to the public sector, self-imposed or not, as the case may be, that all means a significant challenge for public sector management.

Hope this helps.

All very interesting I must say.  My own highly unscientific take on this is that, on average, the report is probably about right.  I’m now 61 and I’ve spent 26 years in the army (logistics and IT, often with civilian colleagues); 12 years in industry (excellent Dutch multi-national Akzo Nobel); 10 years in the public sector (traditional county council, dynamic unitary, NDPB).

Sweeping generalisations are:

More effective operational management in the private makes people work harder:  more results driven, harsher penalties for failure, clearer targets, fear of dismissal

Its harder to get rid of passengers in the public sector.  If they’re managers they drag a team down with them

There are lots of very effective, highly committed folk in the public sector (many of them on these communities of practice because they’re proactive).  But the weaker elements, again especially if they’re managers, drag down the overall productivy.

My solution?  Much greater emphasis on promoting the best and getting rid of the worst.


One may argue whether local government should deliver its services, but it cannot avoid the fact that it has to be done.  Yes, it may appear inefficient, but who else is going to do it?  At the moment, I cannot see the upside for Capita or any other private sector organisation taking over civil burials.  To be sure, there are third sector organisations that might do it and have done it (the church for one.)

As to the quality of road repair, is that an issue of efficiency?  Perhaps the road has substructural issues.  Perhaps the hole was filled as a patch because they had targets to meet and they wanted to be efficient in meeting them.  Perhaps, the hole was filled as a temporary measure because the road will be resurfaced in 6 months.

The problem with potholes is that are are not amenable to repairs or patches.  Much like a tire, you cannot keep patching them because the orginal weakness remains.  In effect, the road has to be resurfaced and the underlying flaws and problems removed.  However, that only works until the next freeze and thaw and 10 tonne lorry comes along or 300 1 tonne cars pass over it per day.

As to the idea of Flow, it fits my wider point that lean thinking is nonsense for local government or any government.  Governement needs slack time, it needs time to sharpen the saw, so that it can be effective.  No one runs a marathon at sprinter speeds.  Organisations, need flab, they need fat so that they can deal with crises and extra demands.  To be sure, we want governments to have efficiency within their structures, but they are not, almost by definition, lean organisations nor are they created to be lean organisations.  If a flood happens in a local authority, they have to deal with it with what they have, they cannot say, come back in a week, if three months later, there is a massive gas outage, all of those people need to be rehoused.  In both instances, the first responder will be the Council.  They have to be able to meet those events and pick up the bins every day and process thousands of benefit and housing claims.  Government does nto stop and it does not go out of business. It has to meet the needs of anyone eligible to its services. To put it directly, McDonalds could choose to stop selling hamburgers on Tuesdays.  Local government cannot choose to stop processing benefits or accepting new claimants.

Governments have a role because of market failures, not their only role and not a very important one, but it is a well known and understood role.  As the point of last resort, which the public has agreed in that welfare system was agreed by and continues to be supported by all parliaments, government has a role that no one private sector organisation could or should fulfil.  If private sector organisations were to take over these roles, it would undermine the idea of a political democracy and democratically accountable governments.

As to Flow and efficiency, the relationship has not been proven.  Moreover, the relationship does not scale in that flow for an individual does not translate into flow within an organisation.  Flow is more about how engaged people are in their work rather than if they are efficient.  To be sure, one is usually, but not always, more efficient when one is engaged. However, the psychological argument is about indivduals and not about organisations.  Organisations, by definition, are not psychological individuals so they cannot experience Flow.

Finally, a small aside but an important one, culture and values are one and the same.  The modern idea that facts and values are separate does not hold up.  We live by principles and ideas.  These ideas and principles are products of our culture. The original idea of culture is the culture of the mind and was indivisible.  All could, through proper exercise of reason, share in that culture.  That process of enculturation was (and is?) called education.  However, today we talk of culture as if it was divisible and there are cultures of all organisations.  What we are talking about, in that we live in the modern world, is the public culture of the country.  The public culture reflects the political regime (to borrow an idea from Aristotle).  In much the same way that New Labour was about trying to create a middle class through its reforms and focus on education, education, education, the new coalition government is reshaping society (the culture) through its Big Society programme.  Within that programme is an agenda to transform the relationship between the individual and the state by focusing on localism, localism, localism.

In effect, the Big Society is about what it means to be a citizen and what local government and by extension government means.  The more these issues are raised and discussed, the focus on localism and on individuals empowering themselves, the less reliant we are on the previous political regime (constitutional monarchy) and the closer we become towards an idea of a republic.  The more that is asked of the individual and the community the less will need to be asked of the government.

In effect, the discussions of lean, or systems thinking, efficient or inefficient government are second or third order issues as they only make sense when understood against the fundamental issues of what is a citizen in this regime and what is this regime.  For us to understand whether we are spending money wisely or unwisely creates huge methodological issues.  First, there is a delay factor.  Any public spending now will not have its effect understood or seen for at least 2-5 years depending on the level (neighbourood or national).  Second, the alternatives are rarely understood or considered.  For example, in how many cases can no spend be an option?  Third, the spending consideration, whether it is wise or not, has to be set against the outcomes that it was designed to achieve.  Whether the money is spent wisely depends as much on the allocation on the agreed targets or goals as it is on the process that sets or creates those targets or goals.  Finally, can money be said to be spent wisely at the local level when the goals are set by a different level, the funding level is determined elsewhere, and less “profitable” lines of “products” such as civil burials cannot be redirected to more “profitable” lines such as economic development?

Just some thoughts, I hope they help as they came from the flow but they may not be very lean.

The Local Government Chronicle (LGC) on 19 August carries more details of the Knox D’Arcy report. It is apparently based on ethnographic research — 376 days in total — and looked at how managers spent their time, minute by minute.  The report concluded that public sector managers spend just 3% of their time on what they called ‘active’ management, but private sector managers were not much better, spending just 5% on active management. One observation was that “much time is spent waiting for work, information or instructions, as well as taking breaks, arriving late or socialising.” (LGC, 19.8.2010: 14). However, private sector managers were found to spend more time being productive, 44% against 30% for public sector managers.

The survey is of a small number of managers (30) so it could be argued that it is not representative.  However, my view is that there is a kernal of truth in this research but that it misses the point a bit too.  In my experience, managers spend way too little time on being in the work; understanding the causes of waste and variation and acting on the system to change it.  In short, they need to get out of the office more and go to Gemba.  [Note for readers unfamiliar with Gemba –  the place where value is created at work, in manufacturing the factory floor, and hence the idea that managers need to go there to look for waste and opportunities for improvement]

For hitting the nail on the head, you have my vote.

What I would add, is that people who are Council workers, are not, as another contributor pointed out, sitting idly by. But they are asked to complete a staggering amount of paperwork – and they get bogged down.

It is not an efficient use of time.

I offer this example

I worked for a severely disabled man who was extremely competent, and knew exactly what he wanted.   If there was a problem with hoists, wheelchair etc., he would phone the firm directly, discuss the problem, and the part  or someone to fix it, would appear the next day.  Compare this to the approach of a Day Centre where I worked.  I was astounded at the forms that had to be filled in – at the length of time clients had to wait – at the general inefficiency that was imposed on the Management.

They were “not allowed” to contact a firm directly. When the due slips had been filled in and sent off, someone else had to assess it for importance. (How is this done, when the person doing the assessing is not using the equipment?) I’m afraid I nicknamed this system: “Send to the Clueless.”

I commented to the Supervisor:

” As a Personal Assistant in the Community, I don’t have all these staff, but problems are solved a lot faster.”  She looked perplexed.

“I don’t understand that,” she said.  “You have to get permission to spend money.”

There is no argument from me on that point.  But when something that is vital is broken, when it is necessary for the smooth running of a facility, why can it not be repaired with due alacrity?

In the months that I worked there, I did not observe a problem being resolved in less than three weeks.

When a disabled person, working alone, could achieve a result in 24 hours, the system must be questioned.

The perplexity of the Supervisor is what is what I am attempting to reflect here.

Everyone is working flat out – but how fast can they travel because of regulations?  And are these regulations ever questioned?  Is there ever an effort to simply take responsibility and change a light bulb, rather than have three separate pieces of paper and two workmen arrive a week later?

When we have an efficient system, we’ll have an effective and efficient workforce.

The two are interdependent.

I argue that we are grown up, and we know our competencies. We should be allowed to take responsibility and work within them.

I agree totally that so often it is the ‘rules and regulations’ that get in the way.  Here is a good example:

In one large organisation we know, the procedures for getting any engineering design/work approved are silly – burdensome.  I found one case where more than 140 signatures were needed to approve a particular document.  Inevitably, several of the signatures did not get affixed and changes were demanded.  Equally inevitably, after the changes were made, other signatures were then refused and yet more, often contradictory changes were demanded. And so on, and so on … Needless to say project time frames and budgets were often exceeded.

There was also a ‘tick the box’ mentality, where observing the form of the procedures counted for more than the actual quality of the work. Performance was, not surprisingly, not excellent – in spite of people drowning in all sorts KPIs [key performance indicators] – and in spite of financial incentives, and all the many progress meetings.

One sad side effect of all the excessively bureaucratic procedures was the state of near warfare that existed between the organisation and its key suppliers. As one of them pointed out, the cost of transacting business with the organisation was more than three times greater than for any other, similar-sized organisation in the same sector.

This was a very good example of the old lesson of ‘form follows function’ not being applied. (It was an American architect, Louis Sullivan who coined the phrase, in 1896).  When form precedes function, what you get is lots of formal structures and processes, and not a lot of real worth happening on the ground – except that, so often, there are many heroes delivering in spite of working in broken systems.

So, instead of arguing about the validity of the report, and whether or not the measures used were proper or not, why not get on with locating and fixing broken systems?  Customers and employees alike will love you for it.

The Institute for Government report Performance Art is a good place to look for some solid ideas on the changes needed to manage improved performance.

Oh, and by the way, that example quoted above is of a private sector company.

Having reviewed this thread, I have a couple of questions and comments that I would be interested in hearing from others.

First, what is the most efficient organisation that you are aware of?  We seem quite capable of pointing out the inefficiencies, but which organisations are efficient?  I would suggest that by its nature any organisation over 50 people begins to have inefficiencies either by design or human nature.

Second, any system that seeks to be fair will be complex.  This is inescapable.  If you want something efficient, ie not complex, then you will have to accept a degree of inequality.

Third, the initial post was about productivity while the thread has focused on efficiency.  Efficiency and productivity are not the same although they are related.

Fourth, what are the upsides to changing this or the downsides to challenging it?  To be sure it is incredibly difficult to be the socratic “gadfly” constantly questioning why something is done a certain way and is there not a better way to do it.  The challenge, as outlined by Machiavelli, is that the people who benefit from the change (the new way of working) are fewer than those who don’t (the status quo) and those who benefit have a lower commitment level than those who don’t.  Are the organisations we discussing amenable to change and willing to unlearn the inefficiencies and learn the efficiencies (i.e. are they open to change?).

The most efficient large organisation that I am aware of is Toyota. I disagree that wanting something efficient means you will have to accept a degree of inequality. Equality and equity need to be defined as part of the fitness measure. As efficient as possible, but no more.  I agree that efficiency and productivity are not the same although they are related. The upsides to changing this is the ability to have more satisfying useful work done and less upsetting make-work noise done. The biggest downside to challenging it is probably what kills it – that if efficiency improves, people might be asked to do the same work with even fewer resources, as other, less efficient groups that compete for the same budget fall further behind. There is sometimes a political advantage in appearing to be measurably in crisis.

Toyota has some serious issues related to its growth.  Productivity and quality control were weakened when it grew larger.  I wonder how efficient they are if they have to recall millions of cars.  Efficiency did not lead to quality control success.  The other issue with this thread is that private sector organisations have, usually, a single focus, (pace Drucker) while public sector have the full spectrum from birth to death and all in between and none of it can be outsourced, i.e. it cannot stop serving adults or children and focus on one customer base.  A final point to consider is that this is based upon an ethnographical study which is data rich but not amenable to deep analysis or easily expandable.  I have doubts about so little time In “productive” work.  As Drucker pointed out any discussion in a work place is a de facto meeting. It does not need an agenda but it does lead to productive work unless it is not work related. In the end anyone can “work harder” but for how long and to what end.  Is a life guard not working if they are not rescuing?

If this was some sort of random survey, and we don’t know, the confidence levels for a value of 32% (local gvt productive time) from a sub sample of 173 is about +/- 7 per centage points i.e. 25 to 39%.

Except that the 173 seems to be all public sector workers surveyed and the productivity quoted for junior public sector workers.  So, how about we assume that 50 of the 178 public sector workers were “junior”, that leaves us with error of around + / – 13 per centage points.

Which means that this survey, on the basis of the summary above, does not prove there is any difference.

I am aware of Roger’s initial post – and of everything that has followed from that.

But the post beginning I agree totally that so often it is the ‘rules and regulations’ that get in the way [five contributions above] has left me wondering somewhat.  It has made me wish to take this to a new dimension.

He mentioned the architect, Louis Suillivan – and his comments on “form follows function”.

Something about these two facts has stuck with me – my father was an architect – and he was very particular not to restrict movement and freedom – to be accommodating.

Common sense?

I agree.  But think about it.

He is designing a building.  The constructors want to know where the path to the door is going to be placed.

He always responded: “You’ll find out when people have walked it.”

He objected to designing a piece of art, which looked good on paper, but when laid in concrete people would wander off, and make their own path, dependent on their requirements and where they were going. Once the building had been up a few months, he would set the path according to the pedestrian traffic.

It was a sensitive method – it never looked ugly with trails off, or downtrodden verges, because people had chosen it themselves.

Is this getting near the bedrock of problems with Councils?  That there is very little opportunity for the individual to choose that path and blaze his own trail?  Is there not confinement to policy – and speaking the words of others?

Does that stifle initiative and innovation which could be so productive?

All well and good querying efficiency but I would have thought that the report should also have considered overall effectiveness.  The public sector is quite a different operating environment to other sectors and people that aren’t apparently doing something (like the lifeguard!) can still be effective. Some may argue that when I spend time on web discussion forums I am not efficient but I would argue that I am being effective.

[In response to the comment above beginning I am aware of Roger’s initial post…]

Thanks again for the feedback.  Now you have got me going – and I would like to stray from the path a little bit farther.

The problem is one of the choice between order (control), on the one hand, versus chaos, on the other.  The idea is that we build designed and controlled organisations that are perfect exemplars of predictability, dependability and repeatability – in a turbulent world.  Combine that thought with the fact that it is impossible to legislate for every exception.  What this adds up to is an organisation that is carefully designed with highly prescriptive rules, to achieve the three ‘under control’ goals – that is populated with people who have to live in the real world of endless exceptions.

At that point, people have a choice. Either they conform to the rule book, and ignore the real needs of the situation they are facing; or they do their best to do what is actually needed, and take their chance on being ‘caught breaking the rules’. Public sector organisations, like most in the private sector, have lots of good conscientious folk, (especially those in operational, service-delivery roles), who really care about their jobs, and refuse to ‘leave their brains at the factory gate’.  They take their chances on the possibility of sanctions – depending on how severe the sanctions might be – and try to do the best they can for their customers.

Because of the possibility of sanctions, their behaviour is generally buried.  So the desire to avoid chaotic systems behaviour, which would occur if the rule book provided broad guidelines instead of prescriptive rules, just drives the chaotic systems behaviour underground.  So the real choice is not between order and chaos – it is between overt chaotic systems and covert chaotic systems.  Or, if you like to think about it a different way, too many senior people are still operating under the ‘illusion of control’, when the operational reality is quite different.

Personally, I would rather operate with chaotic systems behaviour that I know about, rather than the variety that is hidden from me.  To quote the oracle, broad guidelines enable adaptive strategies to be developed, whereas detailed prescriptive rules either get you malicious obedience or hidden rule breaking.  Neither sounds like a good idea to me.

So my thought is that when individuals have ‘little opportunity to choose their own path and blaze their own trail’, they either do it and hide it, or become just another disengaged employee on attendance pay.

[In relation to the previous comment]

A brilliant post – in your last paragraph you have succinctly expressed my general direction.

The possibility of  “disengaged employees” and “attendance pay” can and does affect others and comes into direct conflict with committed and dedicated employees.

How do they feel about each other?

My husband tells the story of being asked to work more slowly by his colleagues because he was making everybody else look bad. He was astonished.

But he had two choices.  He could either slow down – and be economically less productive – or lose all his mates.

He had come from Canada, where you were paid by the job.  The quicker the job was done, the more you made.

He has always considered it folly to pay by the hour – and insists that Canada had a much more engaged and efficient workforce.

And a simpler system.

And as you point out, it takes courage, especially in this day and age to break the rules.

So, to go back to Roger’s original point, is it tension in the ranks causing a problem?  Those who are working devilishly hard “underground” to get past the regulations, and those who merely turn up and ask if it is time for a tea break?

Supposing this was the fundamental rule:

“We accept that everybody working here is an adult, and as such, will be expected to add their own contribution and opinions to current practice.”

Encourage networking coffee breaks and brainstorming.

Chaos avoided?

Voice and choice permitted?

A more efficient system driven by those who know that they have had a part in designing it?

OOooohhh….. Way too scary. It might work!

In fact it did – for Oticon. “Think the Unthinkable” section (half way down the first page of the link ) is well worth considering in this economic climate.